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From: owner-traveller-digest@mpgn.com (Traveller-digest)
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1996 #735
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Traveller-digest      Monday, December 9 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 735



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Long Messages
re: Foss Art
Re: Starships: no map grids
Alternate method to compute "skill asset" for TNE
Re: Starships--Got IT! (fwd)
Re: Carriers & Fighters
RE: Starship Deckplans
Re: Carriers & Fighters
RE: Starships--Got IT! (fwd)
Re: Foss Art
Starships
Re: Followup to "Starships--Got It"
Re: Things that make you go 'Hmmmmm'.
RE: Grand Adventure stuff, Foss Art Design Competition
Re:  Long Posts
RE: Grand Adventure stuff, Foss Art Design Competition
Re: Starship Deckplans
Jo Grant Please Email Me
Mechs in Traveller
Re: Mechs in Traveller
RE: Landing ships.
Re: Landing ships.
Fwd: Re: Jo Grant Please Email Me [delivery failure to wardell@m1.sprynet.com]
Re: Starports
Re: Carriers & Fighters

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:21:38 +0000
From: "Kenneth Bearden" <dreamer@brokersys.com>
Subject: Re: Long Messages

On  9 Dec 96 at 9:45, TPeterAZ@aol.com wrote:


> P.S.---Deckplans, however, are probably best posted to a Web site.  Format
> problems, and all, don't you know.

Since I am not a computer guru, I made my earlier statement about 
posting deck plans here out of ignorance.  I can see from the 
comments that this would not work well.  

Oh well, it was a good thought.  I've noticed that sometimes, if I 
print a page with graphics on it from a site, I will have pictures on 
my printed copy and sometimes I won't.  I just don't know how to make 
them appear all the time.

Kenneth.
(being computer ignorant today)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:25:22 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: Foss Art

How much of the foss art we're seeing is actually new made-for-Traveller,
and how much is recycled from old book covers? A few of the pictures in 
the T4 rulebook look pretty familiar to me... I get the impression that only
the T4 cover is new, the rest is just whatever Foss had lying around that
looked even vaguely appropriate.

And, btw, count me in the category of people who think it's ugly and not
very Traveller.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:35:21 -0600
From: "David Blustein" <dtb@NASCRAG.ORG>
Subject: Re: Starships: no map grids

Robert Flammang wrote:

> The deck plans [in _Starships] are not all to the same scale.

Bummer. I suppose that makes acetate sheets with a standard sized
grid a little less useful, too. :-(

Cheers,
     David
- -- 
David T. Blustein
http://www.nascrag.org./~dtb/
mailto:dtb@nascrag.org

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 12:49:04 -0500 (EST)
From: fcain@st6000.sct.edu (Franklin W. Cain)
Subject: Alternate method to compute "skill asset" for TNE

I just thought of an alternate way for computing "skill assets" for TNE. 
It's based on the method used by HERO Games (Champions, and others).  In
the HERO System, an attribute usually ranges from 8-10 (average) to as
high as 23-25 (exceptional) for human (non-superhero) characters.  The
base "asset" (chance of success) on 3d6 is 9+(attribute/5).  Thus, the
average chance of success in HERO is "11-" on 3d6 for a charcter having
the skill in question at the base level.

For TNE, I would suggest using "Asset = 6 + (Attribute/3) + Skill Level"
as an alternate method of computing skill assets.  A character having an 
average attribute (5-7) and a modest skill level (2) would have an asset
of 10 (6+2+2), which -- for me -- is about right (a 50% chance of success
for a Difficult task).  This method would reduce the effects of extreme
attributes without further inflating the value of extreme skill levels
(skill levels of 10+ are not uncommon using the character generation as
presented).  

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this.  Thank you.  

Franklin

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 09:59:01 -0800
From: Douglas McCorison <douglas@camax.com>
Subject: Re: Starships--Got IT! (fwd)

Suzette C. Dollar wrote:
> 
> I think we, the existing Traveller fanatics, need to keep something
> in mind.... Marc Miller's Traveller, Starships and the upcoming books
> are not being written just for us.  They are being written for the
> new blood that the system has to attract in order to continue being
> published.  All of us have alot of "canon" material to draw from and
> convert to the new system.  The new player doesn't have enough
> information or any reason to use TL13+ stuff if it was included.  Why
> confuse them?

Thank you, Suz.

I was just starting a MegaTraveller campaign after not even SEEing 
Traveller for 10+ years.  I don't have alot of material.  First
thing I did was look for this list. --- Lo and behold, T4 was
on it's way.  I've switched because it captures the feeling I
remember from when I first saw Traveller.  Those "old" starship
plans, I NEED 'em...  I've got some stuff culled from the net,
but I still need more info.  I'm waiting for the CSC with bated
breath.

Douglas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Carriers & Fighters

In-Reply-To: <199612072327.KAA28509@curie.dialix.com.au>

<< In other words, why don't Imperial Carriers carry most of their 
fighters in *external* racks rather than all internally. Also, with 
Thruster plates (rather than HePlaR), which go to full speed and (as I 
understand it) don't have accel (they do 6G as a *speed* rather than as 
an accel) and a zero-G environment, there's no real need for a steam 
catapult equivalent, you can launch directly from the hull with little 
adverse effect. Internal Hangar space is for maintenance and repairs. >>

Hmm...interesting idea. Have you worked out what difference this would 
make?

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:05:48 -0500
From: Eric Freitas <edf@atlantic.net>
Subject: RE: Starship Deckplans

I'm converting one of my deckplans over to digital format.  
I'd like to post it somewhere.  Where would you suggest I
put it so you could download it?

- ----------
From: 	BrianMays@aol.com[SMTP:BrianMays@aol.com]
Sent: 	Sunday, December 08, 1996 12:42 AM
To: 	traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: 	Starship Deckplans

>I would love to see them.  I am always in the market for deck plans!  One
>wonderful source I found was the old Space Opera "Seldon's Starcraft
>Compendiums."  There are some really bizarre ships in them, true, but if you
>are looking for, say, the layout of a megaton luxury star-liner for your
>intrepid party of adventurers to snoop through, the "technical details" can
>be fudged or ignored completely, since chances are really good that these are
>not vessels you will use in combat, and that the players will end up in
>possession of.

Those books are great, I have two of them I believe.

Eric Freitas

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 18:04 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Carriers & Fighters

In-Reply-To: <199612072327.KAA28509@curie.dialix.com.au>

<< In other words, why don't Imperial Carriers carry most of their 
fighters in *external* racks rather than all internally. Also, with 
Thruster plates (rather than HePlaR), which go to full speed and (as I 
understand it) don't have accel (they do 6G as a *speed* rather than as 
an accel) and a zero-G environment, there's no real need for a steam 
catapult equivalent, you can launch directly from the hull with little 
adverse effect. Internal Hangar space is for maintenance and repairs. >>

Hmm...interesting idea. Have you worked out what difference this would 
make?

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 18:05 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: RE: Starships--Got IT! (fwd)

In-Reply-To: <01BBE494.4026D4C0@ppp-oca-fl-017.atlantic.net>

<< What do people (on this list) look for in good starship deck-
plans?  I have a number of ship deckplans, that I may not have
originally designed for Traveller, but have either been or can
be.  If people are interested maybe I'll make them available
somehow. >>

1. Say what everything is - it's really annoying to find a room on a 
deckplan and not be able to identify it (T&G did this a few times).

2. Grid squares.

3. Consistent symbology - CT defined this, but for some reason TNE 
chucked it out the window and made up a different one every time the 
printed a plan.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 18:05 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Foss Art

In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.961207201626.12943D-100000@connect.iconnect.net>

<< 3)  My own opinion of Foss' artwork is that it's interesting to look 
at, and certainly visually appealing, but it's just not Traveller.  I 
can live with it, though, since I care far more for the text associated 
with RPGs than for the art (although I certainly respect the fact that 
for others the art is far more important). >>

That's pretty much my view. I used to be a big Foss fan - I think he was 
the first artist whose name I knew and whose work I could recognise - 
and I still like it, but it doesn't feel like Traveller (hardly 
surprising, since few of the pix were painted for T4).

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 18:06 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Starships

Got my copy today. Illustrations are okay, but not great. Very 
disappointed with the deckplans - they look like they were thrown 
together in a hurry, with very little thought. Would've been nice to 
have a few big ships to scare the PCs with, too. SSDS looks okay, but 
needed a few more higher-tech things, plus rules for creating ships > 
5000t.

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 96 18:05 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Followup to "Starships--Got It"

In-Reply-To: <199612081226.HAA18907@cliff.cris.com>

<< On grids: Yes, no grids. Next to each overhead plan is a square 
marked "2m". So they give you a reference square, marked 2 meters, but 
don't extend it to the plan itself. >>

<sob!>

But the combat system works on 1.5m squares...

    ---------=========oooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooo=========---------
Andrew M J Boulton                  http://www.compulink.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 13:21:55 -0500
From: "Gerald S. Williams" <gsw@aloft.micro.lucent.com>
Subject: Re: Things that make you go 'Hmmmmm'.

Earl Wajenberg <earl@chrysalis.com> wrote:
> In our home-made rule set, we have three precognitive psi skills.
> "Anticipation" is very short-range prescience. [ ... ]
> "Foresight" is retro-fitted preparedness. [ ... ]
> "If Sense" gives you a qualitative feel for well-defined options. [ ... ]

There is a certain symmetry with these, trading off time spent/relaxed
atmosphere for range of prescience. I would make all part of the same
psionic skill, adding one at a time (in any order) as the character gets
more adept at using it (stopping at any time--prescience is tricky and
hard to control). I think you should add:

"Prophecy" gives you the ability to foresee specific events in the future
that will result if events proceed as they currently are proceeding. This
must be done in a truly relaxed state (e.g., while dreaming). Since using
this ability would tend to alter the future, events in the near future are
almost imposible to foresee--it is very hard to control this ability at
all, in fact. It is up to the individual to determine the meaning of the
event that is foreseen. If an event is foreseen, it should be very hard to
avoid (although events can be manipulated so that foreseen events were not
what was originally thought).

There could also be some use for all of these skills going backwards in
time. Backwards "anticipation" would work almost the same, allowing you
to duck blows, etc. "If sense" would be useful when pursuing someone.
"Hindsight" would let you know if someone had passed through in the past
day. The opposite of "prophecy" might let you detect major (or violent)
events that happened in the past.

Interestingly enough, prophecy (and its reverse) are the two skills most
commonly attributed to "psychics" today.

For the record, I hate using psionics in Traveller. But if I were going
to use them, I would certainly include prescience skills. These "feel"
like psychic phenomena. All of the other psionic skills have equivalent
magic spells in D&D (shudder).

- -O Gerald Williams / Bell Laboratories - PAI830 55E-224 O-
- -O gsw@lucent.com /   1247 South Cedar Crest Boulevard  O-
- -O (610)712-3370 /       Allentown, PA  18103-6209      O-
- -O -------------/ "Innovations for Lucent Technologies" O-

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:33:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pill.pharm.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: RE: Grand Adventure stuff, Foss Art Design Competition

	I'd like to weigh in on Kenneth's side in the 'long post' debate. 
His stuff is great, even if I don't ever use any of it...it give me lots
of ideas for character generation and refinement (and hellacious prebuilt
NPC's, too!) 

	To those whining about the long posts, stuff it! I personally
don't care if I ever read another post arguing over landing unstreamlined
ships, or the finer points of manipulating the weak force, or whether
Foss'es art has any place in the Traveller world (btw, I like his
art...IMO it's a hell of a lot better than the amateurish stuff in, for
instance, the three MT books.) But, I'm not clamoring for people to not
post it.

	This is starting to get as bad as when the Great Split appeared in
the list...I don't want that to happen again.

	This list is for ALL things Traveller, whether you like it or not;
that's the point behind free speech, folks. At least Kenneth's posts have
substance to them and aren't long point by point bickering over technical
details. Whether you think the substance is any good is up to you, but it
is not your place to demand to not see it.

	The argument for simply pointing to a web site could easily be
extended to everything on the list; at which point you could wonder what
the point of a mailing list is.

	But I like the group nature of the list, and the fact that there
are a wide variety of viewpoints here...inspiration comes from all over,
in Great Adventure postings, in ship design postings, in, yes, arguing
over the finer points of the Weak force. The more people are shouted down
here, the less valulable this list becomes to all...

	As a point of fact, how about some of you gearheads, instead of
whining about how 'un-traveller' Foss art is, come up with a good,
rational Traveller-esque idea to explain the 'Monorail track in the Sky'
painting. What is it? Why is it? 

	Let's have a competition...I'm sure some of you out there have
imaginations unfettered by 20 years of rigid adherence to canon!

	Me, I'm wondering about the possibilities of Roller Coaster design
with the addition of contra-grav technologies.  How about completely non
- -impact access to wildlife preserves. A floating amusement park/gambling
casino/whatever developed to take advantage of some weird ruling by a
local court that airspace structures aren't taxable by ground governments.


Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:45:34 -0800
From: "Stuart L. Dollar" <sdollar@goodnet.com>
Subject: Re:  Long Posts

Let me come down firmly on the side of Kenneth.  Heck, at least his 
posts are Traveller-related.  Last I checked, this was a Traveller 
mailing list.  Actually, Ken's posts are more appropriate than the "Why 
is Everybody Posting Long Posts" whines that are going on, which add 
nothing to the conversation, and simply increase the old signal to 
noise ratio.  Keep 'em coming, Ken.  I may not agree with you, and I 
may not read every word, but I like some of your ideas.  :-)

When I do get irritated is when we go off on minutiae that bears no 
direct relation to the game, such as the recent religion thread, 
which began as a legitimate, Traveller-related topic, but quickly 
devolved into soc.religion.advocacy or soc.religion.discussion 
nonsense.  Or the constant me too posts, such as all the me toos on 
the Starships book, which frankly, many of the posters probably 
haven't seen (including myself, guilty as charged).

Stu
Stuart L. Dollar               sdollar@goodnet.com
Traveller referee since 1978, Official USENet 
spokesperson for Imperium Games
- ---------------------------------------------------
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God." 
- -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 12:53:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net>
Subject: RE: Grand Adventure stuff, Foss Art Design Competition

On Mon, 9 Dec 1996, Bruce Johnson wrote:

[A great argument that the list is for every sort of discussion, 
including the stuff that Kenneth has been posting - snipped]

I would really rather that the list be for everything readable (ie, not 
uuencoded deck plans), without regard to length.  I know, that's a 
radical position, but it's the way I'd like it to be.  I expecially don't 
want it to become like Xboat - I stopped posting on that mailing list 
long ago because every time I posted, I'd get private emails from morons 
yelling at me for posting ("you quoted too much" or "that post was too 
f*cking long!" or "who cares?").  If TML becomes like that, I'll be 
pretty sad.


> 	As a point of fact, how about some of you gearheads, instead of
> whining about how 'un-traveller' Foss art is, come up with a good,
> rational Traveller-esque idea to explain the 'Monorail track in the Sky'
> painting. What is it? Why is it? 
> 
> 	Let's have a competition...I'm sure some of you out there have
> imaginations unfettered by 20 years of rigid adherence to canon!

Sounds like a good idea.  I'll even donate a free copy of Starships to be 
the prize, as long as you do the judging and take the heat for the whole 
thing, Bruce. ;)


- -Joe
______________________________________________________________________________
Joseph E. Walsh      |  Atari 8-Bit User and Programmer Since 1982
ransom@iconnect.net  |  Classic Traveller Referee Since 1983
Stuck in the '80s    |  Microsoft-Free and Loving It! :)
       .....Official Reporter of Imperium Games Product Info.....

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 11:27:46 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <sudet@well.com>
Subject: Re: Starship Deckplans

>From: Trent Smith <TFSMITH@POMONA.EDU>

>Kenneth Bearden (apparently) is encouraging people to post starship deck plans to this 
>list.  
>but if someone posts deck-plans they'll either be in some sort of weird useless ASCII 
>format or somehow encoded, both of which are both completely useless to me and a
>huge waste of space for folks on the digest version.
>    Obviously, this is the sort of thing that should be put on a web-page
>or sent via private mail.

I agree with Trent on this.  Please put the deck plans on one of the many excellent 
Traveller web pages, and send a message to TML with the URL.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: 09 Dec 1996 19:36:02 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Jo Grant Please Email Me

Sorry for clogging bandwidth on for this, but I've mislaid Jo's address and my
Web access is at work (and I've been ill at home for four days, going crazy
from boredom).

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Dec 96 15:02:35 -0500
From: lewis@slipher.chara.gsu.edu.chara.gsu.edu (Lewis Roberts)
Subject: Mechs in Traveller

>>The color picture of what appeared to be a damaged "mech" bothered me,
>>too (one of the Foss illos).  I've never associated mechs with
>>Traveller.
>>
>>Well, the "mecha" might just be an Ancient artifact or something.
 
Well in 101 Vehicles the Dynchia (A minor human race) are shown to use
a combat walker. 
 
I was thinking about making up a planet where the nobles used combat
mechs in ritual duels, and occasionally formed up mercenary bands. I
also had thought about puting an ornithopter system on a small mech ie
the mech would have wings and fly around.  I think I could have done it
with FFS, but  never got around to it.

Lewis Roberts
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Q:What did Noah use to light up the Ark? 
A:Floodlights!        
       
lewis@chara.gsu.edu
http://www.chara.gsu.edu/~lewis/roberts.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 15:22:32 -0500
From: Daniel Poulin <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Mechs in Traveller

Lewis Roberts wrote:
> 
> >>The color picture of what appeared to be a damaged "mech" bothered me,
> >>too (one of the Foss illos).  I've never associated mechs with
> >>Traveller.
> >>
> >>Well, the "mecha" might just be an Ancient artifact or something.
> 
> Well in 101 Vehicles the Dynchia (A minor human race) are shown to use
> a combat walker.
> 
> I was thinking about making up a planet where the nobles used combat
> mechs in ritual duels, and occasionally formed up mercenary bands. I
> also had thought about puting an ornithopter system on a small mech ie
> the mech would have wings and fly around.  I think I could have done it
> with FFS, but  never got around to it.
> 
Gimme a bloody break! Giant Robots!

My favorite description of Giant Combat Robots can be found in the
supplement Trident/RMBK for Living Steel: 70 tons of junk, 70 tons of
Molten Slags, 70 tons of useless scrap".  Giant Robots, while
technically feasable in Traveller terms (remember the mention in 101
vehicles), they are useless militarily.  The pressure on the ground
would make these vehicles useless on any type of terrains but the
hardest.  The technology (and space) required to put legs on something
like that and make it walk is useless when one can think of what you can
put on a grav tank.  The signature of these things would be so great as
to make them useless militarily.  Any decent missiles would blow them to
pieces.  It would be sufficient to blow one leg away to make these
vehicles stationary.  At least a stationary tank can be thought of as a
light pillbox that can rotate.  A stationary mech is but a target.  You
couldn't put any decent armor on these things because of the weigt ratio
(you don't want your mech to end up in the ground evertime).  Think
there is a reason for tracks on tanks.  Once more, while building mechs
is a fun thing to do using the traveller rules (even FF&S), any decent
general would prefer to donate them to his enemies in the hope that they
would use them.  This was my ranting for today.  This closes our
programming for today.  Thank you :-#).

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 12:55:41 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <sudet@well.com>
Subject: RE: Landing ships.

>From: Garry Ward <Garry.E.Ward@worldnet.att.net>

>On a related note, if you need to find a place to land in a heavily
>forested or jungle area, you can use a time tested technique.  You simply
>drop something equivalent to a 10,000 lb bomb onto a portion of that jungle,
>and you have an instant landing zone.  This was used during the vietnam era
>to make impromptu landing sites for helicopter transports.  The bomb (very
>large) would be rolled out of the cargo bay of a C130 at about 5000ft.

A 10,000 lb bomb would likely leave a huge crater.  In Vietnam, the US forces used 
fuel air explosives ("FAE") to flatten the plant growth.  FAE works by filling a large, 
spherical volume of air with a highly volatile fuel and then combusting it (which 
results really in a detonation).  The concussive force is enormous, and the explosion 
has the side effect of getting rid of all of the oxygen in the affected area (most 
oxygen is consumed by the fuel air explosion, and the rest is pushed out by the blast). 
The center of the sphere was well above the ground, and all trees, grasses, huts, and 
anything else that was relatively soft, would be flattened so that it was safe to land 
helicopters.

During the siege of Saigon in 1975, the ARVN and US forces used FAEs against NVA 
headquarters units, with devastating results.  

Depending on where you're landing your spaceship, FAE might be a good approach.  If 
you're landing it in Vietnam, it would not be, because the ground is often very soft, 
and the weight to surface area ratio of your landing gear may not be as favorable as 
that of a Huey.

A big bomb might therefore be better; it might blast a hole to the bedrock.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 13:15:57 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin, Esq." <sudet@well.com>
Subject: Re: Landing ships.

>From: "Douglas" <douglas@teleport.com>

>If this is a covert landing, generally you do not want to announce your
>arrival (a 10KLb bomb tends to make a little noise), nor leave a trace of
>your landing afterwards.  It also sends spikes to any seismic recorders on
>the continent.

If it's a covert landing, why land at all?  Surely you can hover on contragravity close 
enough to the ground that the team to be inserted can get down by jumping, rappelling, 
being lowered by rope, or using grav belts.  Now if it's a covert extraction, especially 
involving a few tons of contraband, you may have some other problems, but gravitic 
technology should resolve them.  Maybe put several grav belts on the contraband? Pick it 
up with the ship's air/raft?

>I wouldn't want a FAE on MY ship!  

Well, if you store the compenents safely and put them together just before you're going 
to use it, you should be all right.  Maybe the fuel should have two parts that won't 
combust until they've mixed together for a while.  What do the chemists think of this 
solution?

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: 09 Dec 1996 21:32:36 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Fwd: Re: Jo Grant Please Email Me [delivery failure to wardell@m1.sprynet.com]

I keep getting this for every message I send to the TML.  Anyone know how to
stop it?

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> 
> Sorry for clogging bandwidth on for this, but I've mislaid Jo's address and
my
> Web access is at work (and I've been ill at home for four days, going crazy
> from boredom).
> 

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:39:52 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starports

In a message dated 96-12-08 20:54:13 EST, Thad Coons wrote:

> Class E:
>  1) registered with ISS or equivalent agency as open to public.
>  2) landing pad, 1 hectare (10,000 square meters)
>  3) reserved for exclusive use of craft with spacegoing capability.
>  Traffic measured in ships per year 
>  
<snip> 
> 
>  Class A
>  Ground Facilities
>  2) Orbital Traffic Control (One controller with Pilot-6 skill)
>  3) Passenger facilities: (1000 person) Steward 4, Medic 6 
>  4) Cargo and freight facilities, 150,000 Cubic meters, all categories
>  5) Refined Cryogenic Hydrogen, 50,000 Cubic Meters
>  6) Repair facilities, 5 MCr worth of equiment
>  7) Shuttle fleet, 20 shuttles and crew
>  Orbital Facility
>  1) System Traffic Controller (one controller needs Astrogation-6 skill)
>  2) 20 external docking ports
>  3) 20 internal docking hangars: pressurizable, 1500 tons each
>  4) 50 shuttle docking ports
>  5) 10 internal shuttle bays, with on-board shuttles
>  6) Other facilities equivalent to class B ground facilities
>  Traffic in ships per hour. 
>  

Well, OK, but how do you describe Chicago-O'Hare?  I realize in-system and
on-world traffic is likely to be much heavier than off-world traffic, but I
bet Regina, or Mora, or Vincennes get more than 1000 passengers per hour in
M:1100.  And what about Terra?  As a "fer instance," Mora has a population of
tens of billions, and is on a major trade route in a heavily developed area.
 Assume the lowest population multiplier gives somewhere around 10 billion
folks on-world.  If one-one-hundredth of one percent of those people travel
off world per year, the starport would have to handle 1141.5 passengers
*outbound* per hour, (assuming a Terran year) never mind inbound.  I have
always assumed that a Class-A facility is able to handle whatever is thrown
at it, using multiple highports and downports, each capable of handling at
least 10000 tons of ships (be it 50 Free Traders or 5 Type TI Frontier
Transports), and all the cargo and passengers they can carry, supplemented by
smaller orbital and groundside "berthing and repair" facilities that aren't
part of the starport proper.  I also imagine that most larger vessels are
"parked" in orbit, since space is much larger than the ground below.  Again,
a Type-TI might land for the loading or unloading of high- and
mid-passengers, but would then be assigned an orbit, rather than sitting on
the ground when not in use.  IMHO, of course.


Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 08:34:21 +1100
From: "Phillip McGregor" <aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au>
Subject: Re: Carriers & Fighters

> From: Andrew Boulton <aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com
> Cc: traveller-digest@NS.MPGN.COM; gdw-beta@qrc.com
> Subject: Re: Carriers & Fighters
> Date: Tuesday, December 10, 1996 5:00 AM
> 
> In-Reply-To: <199612072327.KAA28509@curie.dialix.com.au>
> 
> << In other words, why don't Imperial Carriers carry most of their 
> fighters in *external* racks rather than all internally. Also, with 
> Thruster plates (rather than HePlaR), which go to full speed and (as I 
> understand it) don't have accel (they do 6G as a *speed* rather than as 
> an accel) and a zero-G environment, there's no real need for a steam 
> catapult equivalent, you can launch directly from the hull with little 
> adverse effect. Internal Hangar space is for maintenance and repairs. >>
> 
> Hmm...interesting idea. Have you worked out what difference this would 
> make?

No, but it would be on the order of the difference between Japanese WW2
carriers and US ones at least (say a max of 80 planes for a large Jap CV
vs. 120 for a large US one - 1/3rd more!). I suspect that similar benefits
would accrue - but I'm waiting for Starships to design one, and even when I
get it, hulls are evidently limited to 5000 tons! I refuse to use the
unusable FF&S and don't have *Blunt Hairpins* and *Cattle Carriers*, and
Book #5 "High Guard" can't really do it justice. Still, maybe I'll try to
put something together for a future "Dark Star" ... after all, we're told
that the (otherwise poorly designed) 10 ton Fighter is what makes the
Imperium superior to its competitors ... so maybe its the *number* they can
carry on their carriers that gives them the edge?

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@.curie.dialix.oz.au
Have Game Designer, Will Travel

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #735
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